And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the filmitself, there is absolutely no indication - other than Ziegler'sdubious contention - that Mandy is also the masked woman at Somerton.There could even have been two deaths. <<<<<<<<<<. The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. I think this feeling of guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. In a buddhist sutra, Sakyamuni, criticized the compulsive mental masturbators and referred to them as people "counting ganges sands." He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. If it'ssupposed to be obvious, then why is it treated as such a great revelation,and why is a character who is presented as being reasonably intelligentso dense as not to see it? In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. 20 years ago today, the final masterpiece from the late, great Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters. Web .

1925 . > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. So is Ziegler lying? Eyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubrick's final movie starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but what does the mask on the pillow near the end mean? (meaning the Mysterious woman) "victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the women at the party, well victor, maybe i'm missing something heyou call it a Charadetell me what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. And Milich was expecting him. Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one He wasn't positive. Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. OT. Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I > know.". Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. <<<<<<< In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, > subliminally. WebEyes Wide Shut. In one of the final scenes, Bill comes home and as he comes to bed he sees Alice (Nicole Kidman) sleeping next to the same Venetian mask he wore at the party. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Models at the party attended by the Royal Family. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. But which'party' is Bill referring to? And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket? The official cause of death was from a heart attack. Nah, the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. He didn't recognise her voice. >>In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is)>, > So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figure> on the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is simple. He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? >on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage between> Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. There are many, many readings of the story available, with the movie itself embracing a sort of dream/nightmare logic. (1) As more people opt for lasik surgery, he will not be able to hide behind those specs. Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." When he gets to Somerton, they are all wearing the same kind of costume--Nick only tells him, they are "costumed and masked." Orgy? 1. Poor Clark. WebSleep Mask for Women, Eye Mask for Sleeping Blindfold Block Out Light and Relieves Dry Eyes with Extra Gel Beads Pad,Super Smooth and Flower Patterns 4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars >>>>>>>> And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because, 1. WebEyes Wide Shut (1999) Abigail Good: Mysterious Woman, Masked Party Principal Showing all 3 items Jump to: Quotes (3) Quotes Mysterious Woman : Stop! Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing.>, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ziegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectively> interpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlier> events of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeply> suspect account? If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. And if it's *not* supposed to be obvious, thatmeans that Polanski screwed up. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. He treated her as a not-very-important> patient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery.>, Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast.>, > How? You know perfectly well what was meant, Mr Glib Pedant but if youwant to Labour on it, as opposed to labor on it >> [ more stuff snipped ]>> > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). He was a master ofthatslight of hand stuff. When Bill goes to the hospital, he asks to see patient Amanda Curren (sp), the name he saw in the newspaper. She helps Bill at the There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. Can it really compete with Rupert? SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. Much as you often dream of people, in a distorted way, whom you met while awake. There's also search enginessuch as Google where you can search for information. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Lets look at the basic plot of this film. Think of that journey as Dr. Bill's "living nightmare" or "daydream," which began after he left his wife. Perhaps itwould have worked better if there had been a photo in the newsarticle. How doesshe know this? This is simple. Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" (2) With AT&T recently announcing that they will dump almost all of their public pay phones, where can he change? What a joke to call them "philosophers." He obtains the secret password to a clandestine masked ball, where he has a seductive encounter with a beautiful stranger. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually know> about Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask > <<<<<<<<<<<<. You saw > her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor > Cruise go free.>> If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have > expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. Orgy? ". AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. > I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the > reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the > crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. Same voice. He treated her as a not-very-importantpatient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery. The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. WebOne of the masked women warns him he is in terrible danger. When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him atthe orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? How? The film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances. >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he >> was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom.>, > Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professional> doctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety than> about Mandy's actual wellbeing. Same voice. it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http://www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne%20Davis/index.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNO0BfBecc. So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. ME> Again. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in adepressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethaldrug overdose. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). > slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. >>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). It was in the trailer or a TV spot. It's just idiotic. >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. Deleuze probably realized how stupid he was before he jumped out that window. The second half of Eyes Wide Shut sees Bill being given ominous warnings from this secret society, and he can't seem to find his mask from the party. Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. NG was :>the realization of that potential. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. And wouldn't he really feel more at home in amore errrrrrrrr Gnostic setting? WebEyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubricks love letter to his wife. I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. <<<<<<<<. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/. Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom However, the lack of one may have saved the life of gangster Vincent (Mad Dog) Coll (various movies). What a mish mash of mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. Given that you have, as you already admitted, absolutely nounderstanding of the terms used or indeed the context in which theywere used, your pedantry is now exposed as pure and contemptiblefraudulence. :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. The movie is based on the 1920's novella Dream Storyand Kubrick developed the project for decades, and once considered a slightly more comedic take with Steve Martin in the lead role. >What else could he call it? What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. > The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy > all along, If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? 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